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The Main Attraction => Let's Get Down & Dirty => Topic started by: Grass is Green on May 04, 2021, 12:51:01 PM

Title: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Grass is Green on May 04, 2021, 12:51:01 PM
Now that we know who any character named Jack is supposed to be, what is really being depicted in the story of Jack and the Beanstalk?
Title: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: SomethingCreative on May 04, 2021, 12:57:35 PM
Apologies if I missed something but who exactly is Jack supposed to be?
Title: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Nrgiseternal on May 04, 2021, 02:11:56 PM
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Now that we know who any character named Jack is supposed to be, what is really being depicted in the story of Jack and the Beanstalk?

Human beings=beans
Giants eat beans
Title: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Nrgiseternal on May 04, 2021, 02:12:23 PM
How many stories deal with orphans?
Orphan and offering share a root
Title: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: SomethingCreative on May 04, 2021, 02:54:41 PM
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How many stories deal with orphans?
Orphan and offering share a root

Disney loves to make movies about kids with deceased parents.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: IAmToday777 on May 04, 2021, 08:43:21 PM
I listened to the audio version of Will Durrant's The Story of Civilization about a year ago.

In the section on England I was very, very surprised at how many times the person behind a failed revolution or uprising was named Jack.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Grass is Green on May 05, 2021, 12:15:20 AM
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Apologies if I missed something but who exactly is Jack supposed to be?

No need to apologize, we are all here to learn. The name Jack is often used to name trickster and a thief. And at the end of this story, a carrier of light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Grass is Green on May 05, 2021, 12:19:08 AM
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Now that we know who any character named Jack is supposed to be, what is really being depicted in the story of Jack and the Beanstalk?

Human beings=beans
Giants eat beans

Jack stole the golden goose from the giant and brought it back down to this world. But he wasn't punished.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Ntwadumela on May 05, 2021, 01:17:18 AM
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Now that we know who any character named Jack is supposed to be, what is really being depicted in the story of Jack and the Beanstalk?

Human beings=beans
Giants eat beans

Jack stole the golden goose from the giant and brought it back down to this world. But he wasn't punished.
Why not, do you imagine?
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Nrgiseternal on May 05, 2021, 02:52:15 AM
So in the original (https://americanliterature.com/childrens-stories/jack-and-the-beanstalk#:~:text=Jack%20and%20the%20Beanstalk%20first,retold%20by%20Flora%20Annie%20Steel.)

  Jack steals first gold coins than a goose that lays golden eggs than a magic harp.

He shows up to the giants house begs the wife for food, is fed and his from the giant thus given safety and each of 3x rewards this kindness with theft.

He stole the economy the agriculture and the culture. It's a jewish subversion manifesto for kids.

And dont forget after the last item he cuts the stalk
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Ntwadumela on May 05, 2021, 02:55:32 AM
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So in the original (https://americanliterature.com/childrens-stories/jack-and-the-beanstalk#:~:text=Jack%20and%20the%20Beanstalk%20first,retold%20by%20Flora%20Annie%20Steel.)

  Jack steals first gold coins than a goose that lays golden eggs than a magic harp.

He shows up to the giants house begs the wife for food, is fed and his from the giant thus given safety and each of 3x rewards this kindness with theft.

He stole the economy the agriculture and the culture. It's a jewish subversion manifesto for kids.

And dont forget after the last item he cuts the stalk
I thought "Jack" was supposed to be a good guy. Or does it more closely mean just the trickster archetype - hence subversion and its teaching, along with the lack of punishment?
I guess it matters, then, what perspective the Trickster takes, eh?
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Nrgiseternal on May 05, 2021, 02:56:59 AM
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So in the original (https://americanliterature.com/childrens-stories/jack-and-the-beanstalk#:~:text=Jack%20and%20the%20Beanstalk%20first,retold%20by%20Flora%20Annie%20Steel.)

  Jack steals first gold coins than a goose that lays golden eggs than a magic harp.

He shows up to the giants house begs the wife for food, is fed and his from the giant thus given safety and each of 3x rewards this kindness with theft.

He stole the economy the agriculture and the culture. It's a jewish subversion manifesto for kids.

And dont forget after the last item he cuts the stalk
I thought "Jack" was supposed to be a good guy. Or does it more closely mean just the trickster archetype - hence subversion and its teaching, along with the lack of punishment?
I guess it matters, then, what perspective the Trickster takes, eh?

Hes a jewish prototype. Infiltrate ingratiate steal
Title: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Penia_Phronesis on May 05, 2021, 01:50:52 PM
Never liked jack and the beanstalk as a kid. This occult lens over children's stories rejuvenates my interest in folklore. Those slippery b@astards have their hand in everything or so it seems. My understanding was subversion occurred when disney turned a folk tale into a full feature film. Reading that breakdown was like watching Ramsay slice and dice a three Michelin star dish: efficient, impressive, and masterful.

Gotta bump this thread to keep it going.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Grass is Green on May 05, 2021, 02:55:18 PM
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Apologies if I missed something but who exactly is Jack supposed to be?

No need to apologize, we are all here to learn. The name Jack is often used to name trickster and a thief. And at the end of this story, a carrier of light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack

Stingy Jack acts an awful lot like Captain Jack Sparrow, no? Just replace satan with Davy Jones. There is even the ten year timeframe like in At World's End.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Grass is Green on May 05, 2021, 02:57:09 PM
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Never liked jack and the beanstalk as a kid. This occult lens over children's stories rejuvenates my interest in folklore. Those slippery b@astards have their hand in everything or so it seems. My understanding was subversion occurred when disney turned a folk tale into a full feature film. Reading that breakdown was like watching Ramsay slice and dice a three Michelin star dish: efficient, impressive, and masterful.

Gotta bump this thread to keep it going.

The Itsy Bitsy Spider
Three Men in a Tub
Row Row Row Your Boat
etc.

All have occult meaning.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Penia_Phronesis on May 09, 2021, 11:02:42 AM
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Never liked jack and the beanstalk as a kid. This occult lens over children's stories rejuvenates my interest in folklore. Those slippery b@astards have their hand in everything or so it seems. My understanding was subversion occurred when disney turned a folk tale into a full feature film. Reading that breakdown was like watching Ramsay slice and dice a three Michelin star dish: efficient, impressive, and masterful.

Gotta bump this thread to keep it going.

The Itsy Bitsy Spider
Three Men in a Tub
Row Row Row Your Boat
etc.

All have occult meaning.

I appreciate your post, grass. Row row row your boat and itsy bitsy spider have covered here, but what about three men in a tub?

Didn't hear that tub one growing up. Why do some say maids and others men? The butcher, the baker, and candlestick maker remind me of eyes wide shut parties: they all serve the same master.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: The Watchers 2.0 on May 09, 2021, 11:12:31 AM
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Never liked jack and the beanstalk as a kid. This occult lens over children's stories rejuvenates my interest in folklore. Those slippery b@astards have their hand in everything or so it seems. My understanding was subversion occurred when disney turned a folk tale into a full feature film. Reading that breakdown was like watching Ramsay slice and dice a three Michelin star dish: efficient, impressive, and masterful.

Gotta bump this thread to keep it going.

The Itsy Bitsy Spider
Three Men in a Tub
Row Row Row Your Boat
etc.

All have occult meaning.

We are the spiders and Rho meson particles to put it simply.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Grass is Green on May 09, 2021, 10:53:10 PM
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Never liked jack and the beanstalk as a kid. This occult lens over children's stories rejuvenates my interest in folklore. Those slippery b@astards have their hand in everything or so it seems. My understanding was subversion occurred when disney turned a folk tale into a full feature film. Reading that breakdown was like watching Ramsay slice and dice a three Michelin star dish: efficient, impressive, and masterful.

Gotta bump this thread to keep it going.

The Itsy Bitsy Spider
Three Men in a Tub
Row Row Row Your Boat
etc.

All have occult meaning.

I appreciate your post, grass. Row row row your boat and itsy bitsy spider have covered here, but what about three men in a tub?

Didn't hear that tub one growing up. Why do some say maids and others men? The butcher, the baker, and candlestick maker remind me of eyes wide shut parties: they all serve the same master.

Exactly. Ostensibly disparate groups identified by their common trade, that are actually quite entwined in private.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Grass is Green on May 10, 2021, 10:05:09 PM
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Never liked jack and the beanstalk as a kid. This occult lens over children's stories rejuvenates my interest in folklore. Those slippery b@astards have their hand in everything or so it seems. My understanding was subversion occurred when disney turned a folk tale into a full feature film. Reading that breakdown was like watching Ramsay slice and dice a three Michelin star dish: efficient, impressive, and masterful.

Gotta bump this thread to keep it going.

The Itsy Bitsy Spider
Three Men in a Tub
Row Row Row Your Boat
etc.

All have occult meaning.

We are the spiders and Rho meson particles to put it simply.


They didn't want to sing, "row, row, row your merkaba."
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Gamma Alterus on May 15, 2021, 01:19:31 PM
Gonna sound absurd but reminded me of a past life of being raised as a druid funny enough. Cobble stone huts of books to read and strange symbolic lessons I was taught. One included a dead tree and making a noose and then chanting some phrases while keeping the noose on your neck, then taking it off.(not tight though) Had to do with a warning on what not to do I think, lessons were hands on and very visual, which weirdly enough suits the way I learn even in this life. Plus I was bare foot in a black cloak as well which I find very stereotypical.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Grass is Green on May 16, 2021, 04:44:46 PM
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Gonna sound absurd but reminded me of a past life of being raised as a druid funny enough. Cobble stone huts of books to read and strange symbolic lessons I was taught. One included a dead tree and making a noose and then chanting some phrases while keeping the noose on your neck, then taking it off.(not tight though) Had to do with a warning on what not to do I think, lessons were hands on and very visual, which weirdly enough suits the way I learn even in this life. Plus I was bare foot in a black cloak as well which I find very stereotypical.

Did you happen to look and see if there is record of that ritual being performed, where and when?
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Ntwadumela on May 21, 2021, 03:24:51 AM
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Apologies if I missed something but who exactly is Jack supposed to be?

No need to apologize, we are all here to learn. The name Jack is often used to name trickster and a thief. And at the end of this story, a carrier of light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack

This is what really confused me. A carrier of light at the end of his story? How does this mesh with Nick suggesting that Jack is supposed to be a "Jewish" thief? I'm having trouble reconciling carrier of light and jack also being conniving and malevolent.
Was I just not understanding Nick to be cynical?
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Nrgiseternal on May 21, 2021, 03:35:38 AM
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Apologies if I missed something but who exactly is Jack supposed to be?

No need to apologize, we are all here to learn. The name Jack is often used to name trickster and a thief. And at the end of this story, a carrier of light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack

This is what really confused me. A carrier of light at the end of his story? How does this mesh with Nick suggesting that Jack is supposed to be a "Jewish" thief? I'm having trouble reconciling carrier of light and jack also being conniving and malevolent.
Was I just not understanding Nick to be cynical?

Why do you think.of light as positive?

What was the default state of the universe
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: ophiuchus on May 22, 2021, 06:36:06 PM
In the TV show Lost, Jack Shephard has a tattoo that says "He walks amongst us, but he is not one of us.".  At the end of the show, he literally becomes a carrier of Light.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Ntwadumela on May 22, 2021, 08:10:09 PM
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Apologies if I missed something but who exactly is Jack supposed to be?

No need to apologize, we are all here to learn. The name Jack is often used to name trickster and a thief. And at the end of this story, a carrier of light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack

This is what really confused me. A carrier of light at the end of his story? How does this mesh with Nick suggesting that Jack is supposed to be a "Jewish" thief? I'm having trouble reconciling carrier of light and jack also being conniving and malevolent.
Was I just not understanding Nick to be cynical?

Why do you think.of light as positive?

What was the default state of the universe

I think I'm taking a personification angle. I understand what you're suggesting: "Light" means knowledge here.
But, yeah, contrast is what really animates things. What is Light without Darkness?
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Nrgiseternal on May 23, 2021, 12:30:23 AM
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Apologies if I missed something but who exactly is Jack supposed to be?

No need to apologize, we are all here to learn. The name Jack is often used to name trickster and a thief. And at the end of this story, a carrier of light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack

This is what really confused me. A carrier of light at the end of his story? How does this mesh with Nick suggesting that Jack is supposed to be a "Jewish" thief? I'm having trouble reconciling carrier of light and jack also being conniving and malevolent.
Was I just not understanding Nick to be cynical?

Why do you think.of light as positive?

What was the default state of the universe

I think I'm taking a personification angle. I understand what you're suggesting: "Light" means knowledge here.
But, yeah, contrast is what really animates things. What is Light without Darkness?

More importantly, stripped of stigma,  what do the vast number of humans find more instinctively comforting, safe and tranquil
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Grass is Green on May 23, 2021, 01:30:26 AM
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Apologies if I missed something but who exactly is Jack supposed to be?

No need to apologize, we are all here to learn. The name Jack is often used to name trickster and a thief. And at the end of this story, a carrier of light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack)

This is what really confused me. A carrier of light at the end of his story? How does this mesh with Nick suggesting that Jack is supposed to be a "Jewish" thief? I'm having trouble reconciling carrier of light and jack also being conniving and malevolent.
Was I just not understanding Nick to be cynical?

Why do you think.of light as positive?

What was the default state of the universe

I think I'm taking a personification angle. I understand what you're suggesting: "Light" means knowledge here.
But, yeah, contrast is what really animates things. What is Light without Darkness?

More importantly, stripped of stigma,  what do the vast number of humans find more instinctively comforting, safe and tranquil


And to which are we conditioned to flock toward in times of uncertainty, such as right after death?
Title: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Amantes on May 23, 2021, 10:17:43 AM
Who sleeps with all of their lights turned on?   :o
Title: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Nrgiseternal on May 23, 2021, 01:06:05 PM
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Who sleeps with all of their lights turned on?   :o

In mates
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Ntwadumela on May 24, 2021, 04:02:11 AM
Thus Lucifer/Prometheus being a deceiver, eh?
I'll admit, it's difficult at times to change the dial between here and other places. Having to put more effort in to thinking about what you guys are talking about is still alluring to me, even after a couple of years of lurking around.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Nrgiseternal on May 24, 2021, 09:09:21 AM
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Thus Lucifer/Prometheus being a deceiver, eh?
I'll admit, it's difficult at times to change the dial between here and other places. Having to put more effort in to thinking about what you guys are talking about is still alluring to me, even after a couple of years of lurking around.

See but like... you're the one saying lucifer is the deceiver. Who rewrote and perverted the Bible? Was it slammin' sammy?
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Ntwadumela on May 24, 2021, 11:18:09 PM
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Thus Lucifer/Prometheus being a deceiver, eh?
I'll admit, it's difficult at times to change the dial between here and other places. Having to put more effort in to thinking about what you guys are talking about is still alluring to me, even after a couple of years of lurking around.

See but like... you're the one saying lucifer is the deceiver. Who rewrote and perverted the Bible? Was it slammin' sammy?

Is the Trickster not a manifestation of Lucifer?
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Nrgiseternal on May 25, 2021, 03:36:06 AM
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Thus Lucifer/Prometheus being a deceiver, eh?
I'll admit, it's difficult at times to change the dial between here and other places. Having to put more effort in to thinking about what you guys are talking about is still alluring to me, even after a couple of years of lurking around.

See but like... you're the one saying lucifer is the deceiver. Who rewrote and perverted the Bible? Was it slammin' sammy?

Is the Trickster not a manifestation of Lucifer?

Actually no. Lucifer is not Satan. Satan isn't. Even Satan, Satan is a title. That which we think of as Satan is really Hermes
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Ntwadumela on June 07, 2021, 02:45:56 AM
I don't think "Satan" is the Trickster. I was never under that impression. I understand the title means "adversary".
Wasn't one of the big points of the Promethean Myth his deception of Zeus? Prometheus feels like the shining example of the Lucifer title. The Serpent in the Garden was also a Trickster, no? Didn't he deceive El (Anu)?

How does "Satan" connect to Hermes? I'm not following and I'm assuming there's context I'm missing.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Ntwadumela on June 07, 2021, 02:55:31 AM
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Apologies if I missed something but who exactly is Jack supposed to be?

No need to apologize, we are all here to learn. The name Jack is often used to name trickster and a thief. And at the end of this story, a carrier of light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack)

This is what really confused me. A carrier of light at the end of his story? How does this mesh with Nick suggesting that Jack is supposed to be a "Jewish" thief? I'm having trouble reconciling carrier of light and jack also being conniving and malevolent.
Was I just not understanding Nick to be cynical?

Why do you think.of light as positive?

What was the default state of the universe

I think I'm taking a personification angle. I understand what you're suggesting: "Light" means knowledge here.
But, yeah, contrast is what really animates things. What is Light without Darkness?

More importantly, stripped of stigma,  what do the vast number of humans find more instinctively comforting, safe and tranquil


And to which are we conditioned to flock toward in times of uncertainty, such as right after death?

So, Jack carries Light (Lucifer), but a false Light. Does this not make him a deceiver?
I understand what you guys are pointing toward with the primordial darkness concept, "Let there be Light". Sure. But these two concepts seem to contradict to me, especially in light of the previous post I've made.
I'm not sure what I'm missing here.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Nrgiseternal on June 07, 2021, 03:22:13 AM
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Apologies if I missed something but who exactly is Jack supposed to be?

No need to apologize, we are all here to learn. The name Jack is often used to name trickster and a thief. And at the end of this story, a carrier of light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack)

This is what really confused me. A carrier of light at the end of his story? How does this mesh with Nick suggesting that Jack is supposed to be a "Jewish" thief? I'm having trouble reconciling carrier of light and jack also being conniving and malevolent.
Was I just not understanding Nick to be cynical?

Why do you think.of light as positive?

What was the default state of the universe

I think I'm taking a personification angle. I understand what you're suggesting: "Light" means knowledge here.
But, yeah, contrast is what really animates things. What is Light without Darkness?

More importantly, stripped of stigma,  what do the vast number of humans find more instinctively comforting, safe and tranquil


And to which are we conditioned to flock toward in times of uncertainty, such as right after death?

So, Jack carries Light (Lucifer), but a false Light. Does this not make him a deceiver?
I understand what you guys are pointing toward with the primordial darkness concept, "Let there be Light". Sure. But these two concepts seem to contradict to me, especially in light of the previous post I've made.
I'm not sure what I'm missing here.

So... why is the light false
Title: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: stgermaine on June 07, 2021, 03:27:19 AM
darkness was the original state, we weren't the original inhabitants here, we arrived here with the arrival of light? maybe there's two types of light and knowledge? one light that binds us to the illussion and one that helps you break free from it?
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Ntwadumela on June 07, 2021, 04:01:45 AM
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Apologies if I missed something but who exactly is Jack supposed to be?

No need to apologize, we are all here to learn. The name Jack is often used to name trickster and a thief. And at the end of this story, a carrier of light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack)

This is what really confused me. A carrier of light at the end of his story? How does this mesh with Nick suggesting that Jack is supposed to be a "Jewish" thief? I'm having trouble reconciling carrier of light and jack also being conniving and malevolent.
Was I just not understanding Nick to be cynical?

Why do you think.of light as positive?

What was the default state of the universe

I think I'm taking a personification angle. I understand what you're suggesting: "Light" means knowledge here.
But, yeah, contrast is what really animates things. What is Light without Darkness?

More importantly, stripped of stigma,  what do the vast number of humans find more instinctively comforting, safe and tranquil


And to which are we conditioned to flock toward in times of uncertainty, such as right after death?

So, Jack carries Light (Lucifer), but a false Light. Does this not make him a deceiver?
I understand what you guys are pointing toward with the primordial darkness concept, "Let there be Light". Sure. But these two concepts seem to contradict to me, especially in light of the previous post I've made.
I'm not sure what I'm missing here.

So... why is the light false

I understand it wasn't the Divine Light of Sophia, but of Yaldaboath.
Yet, Sophia implanted that very light in Seth, deceiving the Demiurge. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to perceive the delineation you're making when you're being laconic. Is it because we were talking about Jack being a "Jewish" archetype (connection to the Demiurge)? Still, do both aspects of "Light carrier"s not have an embedded facet of deception?
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Nrgiseternal on June 07, 2021, 04:27:16 AM
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Apologies if I missed something but who exactly is Jack supposed to be?

No need to apologize, we are all here to learn. The name Jack is often used to name trickster and a thief. And at the end of this story, a carrier of light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack)

This is what really confused me. A carrier of light at the end of his story? How does this mesh with Nick suggesting that Jack is supposed to be a "Jewish" thief? I'm having trouble reconciling carrier of light and jack also being conniving and malevolent.
Was I just not understanding Nick to be cynical?

Why do you think.of light as positive?

What was the default state of the universe

I think I'm taking a personification angle. I understand what you're suggesting: "Light" means knowledge here.
But, yeah, contrast is what really animates things. What is Light without Darkness?

More importantly, stripped of stigma,  what do the vast number of humans find more instinctively comforting, safe and tranquil


And to which are we conditioned to flock toward in times of uncertainty, such as right after death?

So, Jack carries Light (Lucifer), but a false Light. Does this not make him a deceiver?
I understand what you guys are pointing toward with the primordial darkness concept, "Let there be Light". Sure. But these two concepts seem to contradict to me, especially in light of the previous post I've made.
I'm not sure what I'm missing here.

So... why is the light false

I understand it wasn't the Divine Light of Sophia, but of Yaldaboath.
Yet, Sophia implanted that very light in Seth, deceiving the Demiurge. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to perceive the delineation you're making when you're being laconic. Is it because we were talking about Jack being a "Jewish" archetype (connection to the Demiurge)? Still, do both aspects of "Light carrier"s not have an embedded facet of deception?

Dude...

"I like apples"

"I get it the apple is symbolic of temptation and the temptations sang, so you're saying to sing"

Don't make leaps, take steps
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: The Watchers 2.0 on June 07, 2021, 05:27:12 AM
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Apologies if I missed something but who exactly is Jack supposed to be?

No need to apologize, we are all here to learn. The name Jack is often used to name trickster and a thief. And at the end of this story, a carrier of light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack)

This is what really confused me. A carrier of light at the end of his story? How does this mesh with Nick suggesting that Jack is supposed to be a "Jewish" thief? I'm having trouble reconciling carrier of light and jack also being conniving and malevolent.
Was I just not understanding Nick to be cynical?

Why do you think.of light as positive?

What was the default state of the universe

I think I'm taking a personification angle. I understand what you're suggesting: "Light" means knowledge here.
But, yeah, contrast is what really animates things. What is Light without Darkness?

More importantly, stripped of stigma,  what do the vast number of humans find more instinctively comforting, safe and tranquil


And to which are we conditioned to flock toward in times of uncertainty, such as right after death?

So, Jack carries Light (Lucifer), but a false Light. Does this not make him a deceiver?
I understand what you guys are pointing toward with the primordial darkness concept, "Let there be Light". Sure. But these two concepts seem to contradict to me, especially in light of the previous post I've made.
I'm not sure what I'm missing here.

So... why is the light false

The light is false because our reality is an illusion or maybe our reality is an illusion because light is false in and of itself its nature is to deceive. If everything is just various forms of light that are parsed through our vision with our Luciferian eyes then there truly is nothing 'real' or not deceptive about the light.

Who or when was it that claimed light was anything other than deceptive? Who claimed it was anything similar or even being 'the truth'?

Title: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: The Watchers 2.0 on June 07, 2021, 05:29:12 AM
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darkness was the original state, we weren't the original inhabitants here, we arrived here with the arrival of light? maybe there's two types of light and knowledge? one light that binds us to the illussion and one that helps you break free from it?

Some would say we are light but that would mean we are probably void of darkness. Isn't there always a shadow following you when you stand in the light?

We are neither 'Light' or 'Darkness' we are something 'in-between'. 'The originals' were 'darkness' itself apparently and the others that Creator made were literally made of 'light'. We are something special, we are neither yet are composed of both at least on some level it would appear to be the case.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: The Watchers 2.0 on June 07, 2021, 05:47:27 AM
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Apologies if I missed something but who exactly is Jack supposed to be?

No need to apologize, we are all here to learn. The name Jack is often used to name trickster and a thief. And at the end of this story, a carrier of light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack)

This is what really confused me. A carrier of light at the end of his story? How does this mesh with Nick suggesting that Jack is supposed to be a "Jewish" thief? I'm having trouble reconciling carrier of light and jack also being conniving and malevolent.
Was I just not understanding Nick to be cynical?

Why do you think.of light as positive?

What was the default state of the universe

I think I'm taking a personification angle. I understand what you're suggesting: "Light" means knowledge here.
But, yeah, contrast is what really animates things. What is Light without Darkness?

More importantly, stripped of stigma,  what do the vast number of humans find more instinctively comforting, safe and tranquil


And to which are we conditioned to flock toward in times of uncertainty, such as right after death?

So, Jack carries Light (Lucifer), but a false Light. Does this not make him a deceiver?
I understand what you guys are pointing toward with the primordial darkness concept, "Let there be Light". Sure. But these two concepts seem to contradict to me, especially in light of the previous post I've made.
I'm not sure what I'm missing here.

So... why is the light false

I understand it wasn't the Divine Light of Sophia, but of Yaldaboath.
Yet, Sophia implanted that very light in Seth, deceiving the Demiurge. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to perceive the delineation you're making when you're being laconic. Is it because we were talking about Jack being a "Jewish" archetype (connection to the Demiurge)? Still, do both aspects of "Light carrier"s not have an embedded facet of deception?

There is no such thing as 'Divine Light' there is merely the wielder and their intent and in this case its 'Sophia' the entity that fell on some grand level and initiated some large part of humanity into a new age of ignorance (to keep things simple).

If Darkness is the true natural state of the universe then why is it that 'Light' is 'divine'? Why is the Darkness not divine instead? Why don't we hear about 'divine Darkness' instead?
Title: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: ephemeron on June 07, 2021, 07:58:17 AM
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Yet, Sophia implanted that very light in Seth, deceiving the Demiurge. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to perceive the delineation you're making when you're being laconic. Is it because we were talking about Jack being a "Jewish" archetype (connection to the Demiurge)? Still, do both aspects of "Light carrier"s not have an embedded facet of deception?

FWIW I think the issue of Satan was brought up to show how polarized expectations can ensnare our learning of these concepts. If they have us filling the wrong blanks we’ll never notice the right answers. Religions don’t arm us with the correct slots for the cosmic shapes, after (((rewrites))) they arm us with slots that will actively refuse those shapes.

Take the Demiurge for example, the Greeks assigned that title to a planet, simple as that, but the Gnostic hijack formed such a polarized story around that title, made it so evil, good luck fitting any shape through the Demiurge slot anymore. They created a ‘blank’ that doesn’t exist, there’s no ‘answer’ because any real demiurge is nothing like the Gnostic story describes.

That’s one immediate example of the above. The Demiurge isn’t Jewish, the rewrite convincing us he’s an evil deity opposed to Mankind is Jewish. Lucifer isn’t deceptive, the rewrite convincing us he has ill intent is deceptive... etc.
Title: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: The Watchers 2.0 on June 07, 2021, 12:41:00 PM
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Yet, Sophia implanted that very light in Seth, deceiving the Demiurge. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to perceive the delineation you're making when you're being laconic. Is it because we were talking about Jack being a "Jewish" archetype (connection to the Demiurge)? Still, do both aspects of "Light carrier"s not have an embedded facet of deception?

FWIW I think the issue of Satan was brought up to show how polarized expectations can ensnare our learning of these concepts. If they have us filling the wrong blanks we’ll never notice the right answers. Religions don’t arm us with the correct slots for the cosmic shapes, after (((rewrites))) they arm us with slots that will actively refuse those shapes.

Take the Demiurge for example, the Greeks assigned that title to a planet, simple as that, but the Gnostic hijack formed such a polarized story around that title, made it so evil, good luck fitting any shape through the Demiurge slot anymore. They created a ‘blank’ that doesn’t exist, there’s no ‘answer’ because any real demiurge is nothing like the Gnostic story describes.

That’s one immediate example of the above. The Demiurge isn’t Jewish, the rewrite convincing us he’s an evil deity opposed to Mankind is Jewish. Lucifer isn’t deceptive, the rewrite convincing us he has ill intent is deceptive... etc.

What is the known etymology of 'demiurge'?

Quote
demiurge (n.)
1670s, from Latinized form of Greek dēmiourgos, literally "public or skilled worker, worker for the people," from dēmos "common people" (see demotic) + ergos "work," from PIE root *werg- "to do."

A little recent as far as 'old etymologies' go but still, if this is the case then why is the 'public/skilled worker for the people' the villainized?
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Undestroyer on June 07, 2021, 09:07:23 PM
just watched this interview with an exorcist.
he touches on some of these topics.
https://youtu.be/nhhi7Fk3ueI
Title: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Nrgiseternal on June 07, 2021, 09:28:09 PM
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Yet, Sophia implanted that very light in Seth, deceiving the Demiurge. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to perceive the delineation you're making when you're being laconic. Is it because we were talking about Jack being a "Jewish" archetype (connection to the Demiurge)? Still, do both aspects of "Light carrier"s not have an embedded facet of deception?

FWIW I think the issue of Satan was brought up to show how polarized expectations can ensnare our learning of these concepts. If they have us filling the wrong blanks we’ll never notice the right answers. Religions don’t arm us with the correct slots for the cosmic shapes, after (((rewrites))) they arm us with slots that will actively refuse those shapes.

Take the Demiurge for example, the Greeks assigned that title to a planet, simple as that, but the Gnostic hijack formed such a polarized story around that title, made it so evil, good luck fitting any shape through the Demiurge slot anymore. They created a ‘blank’ that doesn’t exist, there’s no ‘answer’ because any real demiurge is nothing like the Gnostic story describes.

That’s one immediate example of the above. The Demiurge isn’t Jewish, the rewrite convincing us he’s an evil deity opposed to Mankind is Jewish. Lucifer isn’t deceptive, the rewrite convincing us he has ill intent is deceptive... etc.

What is the known etymology of 'demiurge'?

Quote
demiurge (n.)
1670s, from Latinized form of Greek dēmiourgos, literally "public or skilled worker, worker for the people," from dēmos "common people" (see demotic) + ergos "work," from PIE root *werg- "to do."

A little recent as far as 'old etymologies' go but still, if this is the case then why is the 'public/skilled worker for the people' the villainized?

Gnosticism is mostly bunk. Though a few berries posess valuable fiber its mostly juice
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Ntwadumela on June 08, 2021, 12:25:07 AM
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Dude...

"I like apples"

"I get it the apple is symbolic of temptation and the temptations sang, so you're saying to sing"

Don't make leaps, take steps

Hold on, Nick.
I was asking about the implications of framing Jack as being Jewish and how I was supposed to interpret it: post #21. As you'll recall, you then asked why I thought Light was positive. I didn't necessarily think that. I was actually asking about your making it seem like it was a good or bad thing and if I was supposed to interpret it one way or another, hence my asking about you calling Jack Jewish.
I relented; I said fine, I was misunderstanding you and made it seem like a personification, where it can be viewed as a good or bad thing.
This is when you asked me to convey my understanding of primordial darkness and I reciprocated, agreeing to the concept of "false light".
Your next comment was condemning my framing Lucifer as a deceiver. I thought then it was best to just cut to the chase, leaving behind dichotomous frames and simply repeated the question, this time leaving out the word that seemed to trigger the next response - I called it Trickster and not deceiver this time.
Here is where you assumed I meant Satan, but I'm, again, fully aware "Satan" just means "adversary".
Next, I gave examples of why I thought a crucial component of Lucifer was deception, namely in this situation agreeing Jack's light was false (deception). Next you again asked me about the primordial darkness concept and I illustrated my understanding of the typical story used, specifying why we consider the light of the Demiurge to be false.

Nick, I don't think I ever made a leap after my initial misunderstanding, which you never really answered, you just assumed I meant to say "bad guy" when I just meant the Trickster archetype (to me it's devoid of polarized perspective). Frankly, I was asking you about your dichotomous frame of Jack and I explicitly asked if you were just being cynical or something. Maybe I should've asked if it was supposed to be a fleeting example, not one through which I should perceive any deeper connotation of Lucifer.

I'm not sure why you're being impatient with me. I've tried to just cut back to the original question multiple times now...
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Ntwadumela on June 08, 2021, 12:37:01 AM
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Apologies if I missed something but who exactly is Jack supposed to be?

No need to apologize, we are all here to learn. The name Jack is often used to name trickster and a thief. And at the end of this story, a carrier of light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingy_Jack)

This is what really confused me. A carrier of light at the end of his story? How does this mesh with Nick suggesting that Jack is supposed to be a "Jewish" thief? I'm having trouble reconciling carrier of light and jack also being conniving and malevolent.
Was I just not understanding Nick to be cynical?

Why do you think.of light as positive?

What was the default state of the universe

I think I'm taking a personification angle. I understand what you're suggesting: "Light" means knowledge here.
But, yeah, contrast is what really animates things. What is Light without Darkness?

More importantly, stripped of stigma,  what do the vast number of humans find more instinctively comforting, safe and tranquil


And to which are we conditioned to flock toward in times of uncertainty, such as right after death?

So, Jack carries Light (Lucifer), but a false Light. Does this not make him a deceiver?
I understand what you guys are pointing toward with the primordial darkness concept, "Let there be Light". Sure. But these two concepts seem to contradict to me, especially in light of the previous post I've made.
I'm not sure what I'm missing here.

So... why is the light false

I understand it wasn't the Divine Light of Sophia, but of Yaldaboath.
Yet, Sophia implanted that very light in Seth, deceiving the Demiurge. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to perceive the delineation you're making when you're being laconic. Is it because we were talking about Jack being a "Jewish" archetype (connection to the Demiurge)? Still, do both aspects of "Light carrier"s not have an embedded facet of deception?

There is no such thing as 'Divine Light' there is merely the wielder and their intent and in this case its 'Sophia' the entity that fell on some grand level and initiated some large part of humanity into a new age of ignorance (to keep things simple).

If Darkness is the true natural state of the universe then why is it that 'Light' is 'divine'? Why is the Darkness not divine instead? Why don't we hear about 'divine Darkness' instead?

Yes, I was just using the Gnostic tale to convey my understanding of the primordial darkness concept. No, I didn't fully explain my perspective.
It would be much easier if we quit making assumptions about what each other can comprehend and instead just answer questions plainly. I can't learn anything like this and it just feels frustrating when we have to keep pausing and stating we're on the same page or trying to teach through each other's assumed misconceptions.
I fully understand the fault in using dichotomous thought. Here I was illustrating my understanding of the stories and asking where Nick calling Jack Jewish fits in to this whole ordeal. Before, I was simply asking about Nick (to some extent also Grass) framing Jack one way or the other.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Ntwadumela on June 08, 2021, 12:53:05 AM
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Yet, Sophia implanted that very light in Seth, deceiving the Demiurge. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to perceive the delineation you're making when you're being laconic. Is it because we were talking about Jack being a "Jewish" archetype (connection to the Demiurge)? Still, do both aspects of "Light carrier"s not have an embedded facet of deception?

FWIW I think the issue of Satan was brought up to show how polarized expectations can ensnare our learning of these concepts. If they have us filling the wrong blanks we’ll never notice the right answers. Religions don’t arm us with the correct slots for the cosmic shapes, after (((rewrites))) they arm us with slots that will actively refuse those shapes.

Take the Demiurge for example, the Greeks assigned that title to a planet, simple as that, but the Gnostic hijack formed such a polarized story around that title, made it so evil, good luck fitting any shape through the Demiurge slot anymore. They created a ‘blank’ that doesn’t exist, there’s no ‘answer’ because any real demiurge is nothing like the Gnostic story describes.

That’s one immediate example of the above. The Demiurge isn’t Jewish, the rewrite convincing us he’s an evil deity opposed to Mankind is Jewish. Lucifer isn’t deceptive, the rewrite convincing us he has ill intent is deceptive... etc.

As I stated in my second or third post in the thread, this whole time I was trying to reconcile stories like the serpent in the garden or Prometheus being devoid of dichotomy when Jack's story wasn't.
I fully understand all of this...

Okay, I get it. "Lucifer" doesn't have to have any theme of tricking involved.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Grass is Green on June 08, 2021, 12:01:38 PM
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Yet, Sophia implanted that very light in Seth, deceiving the Demiurge. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to perceive the delineation you're making when you're being laconic. Is it because we were talking about Jack being a "Jewish" archetype (connection to the Demiurge)? Still, do both aspects of "Light carrier"s not have an embedded facet of deception?

FWIW I think the issue of Satan was brought up to show how polarized expectations can ensnare our learning of these concepts. If they have us filling the wrong blanks we’ll never notice the right answers. Religions don’t arm us with the correct slots for the cosmic shapes, after (((rewrites))) they arm us with slots that will actively refuse those shapes.

Take the Demiurge for example, the Greeks assigned that title to a planet, simple as that, but the Gnostic hijack formed such a polarized story around that title, made it so evil, good luck fitting any shape through the Demiurge slot anymore. They created a ‘blank’ that doesn’t exist, there’s no ‘answer’ because any real demiurge is nothing like the Gnostic story describes.

That’s one immediate example of the above. The Demiurge isn’t Jewish, the rewrite convincing us he’s an evil deity opposed to Mankind is Jewish. Lucifer isn’t deceptive, the rewrite convincing us he has ill intent is deceptive... etc.

As I stated in my second or third post in the thread, this whole time I was trying to reconcile stories like the serpent in the garden or Prometheus being devoid of dichotomy when Jack's story wasn't.
I fully understand all of this...

Okay, I get it. "Lucifer" doesn't have to have any theme of tricking involved.


Elohim told Adam and Eve to only eat from the Tree of Life, and that if they eat from the Tree of Knowledge, they will die. They ate the forbidden fruit anyway. Did they die?


The serpent told Eve that if she eats from the Tree of Knowledge, she will not die, but have knowledge of good and evil (duality) and become like God.


One of these entities straight up lied to Adam and Eve to keep them docile, while the other offered them a choice. Lucifer offers you a choice. It is up to you to choose wisely. In that way, Lucifer preserves free will, the most precious gift/curse given to man.
Title: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: AllKeyMe on June 08, 2021, 12:51:32 PM
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Yet, Sophia implanted that very light in Seth, deceiving the Demiurge. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to perceive the delineation you're making when you're being laconic. Is it because we were talking about Jack being a "Jewish" archetype (connection to the Demiurge)? Still, do both aspects of "Light carrier"s not have an embedded facet of deception?


FWIW I think the issue of Satan was brought up to show how polarized expectations can ensnare our learning of these concepts. If they have us filling the wrong blanks we’ll never notice the right answers. Religions don’t arm us with the correct slots for the cosmic shapes, after (((rewrites))) they arm us with slots that will actively refuse those shapes.

Take the Demiurge for example, the Greeks assigned that title to a planet, simple as that, but the Gnostic hijack formed such a polarized story around that title, made it so evil, good luck fitting any shape through the Demiurge slot anymore. They created a ‘blank’ that doesn’t exist, there’s no ‘answer’ because any real demiurge is nothing like the Gnostic story describes.

That’s one immediate example of the above. The Demiurge isn’t Jewish, the rewrite convincing us he’s an evil deity opposed to Mankind is Jewish. Lucifer isn’t deceptive, the rewrite convincing us he has ill intent is deceptive... etc.

As I stated in my second or third post in the thread, this whole time I was trying to reconcile stories like the serpent in the garden or Prometheus being devoid of dichotomy when Jack's story wasn't.
I fully understand all of this...

Okay, I get it. "Lucifer" doesn't have to have any theme of tricking involved.


Elohim told Adam and Eve to only eat from the Tree of Life, and that if they eat from the Tree of Knowledge, they will die. They ate the forbidden fruit anyway. Did they die?


The serpent told Eve that if she eats from the Tree of Knowledge, she will not die, but have knowledge of good and evil (duality) and become like God.


One of these entities straight up lied to Adam and Eve to keep them docile, while the other offered them a choice. Lucifer offers you a choice. It is up to you to choose wisely. In that way, Lucifer preserves free will, the most precious gift/curse given to man.

They did die. Death as in they were no longer the same.
The original topic was false light. As far as I am concerned any light that leads further away from creator is false.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Grass is Green on June 09, 2021, 10:57:46 AM
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Yet, Sophia implanted that very light in Seth, deceiving the Demiurge. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to perceive the delineation you're making when you're being laconic. Is it because we were talking about Jack being a "Jewish" archetype (connection to the Demiurge)? Still, do both aspects of "Light carrier"s not have an embedded facet of deception?


FWIW I think the issue of Satan was brought up to show how polarized expectations can ensnare our learning of these concepts. If they have us filling the wrong blanks we’ll never notice the right answers. Religions don’t arm us with the correct slots for the cosmic shapes, after (((rewrites))) they arm us with slots that will actively refuse those shapes.

Take the Demiurge for example, the Greeks assigned that title to a planet, simple as that, but the Gnostic hijack formed such a polarized story around that title, made it so evil, good luck fitting any shape through the Demiurge slot anymore. They created a ‘blank’ that doesn’t exist, there’s no ‘answer’ because any real demiurge is nothing like the Gnostic story describes.

That’s one immediate example of the above. The Demiurge isn’t Jewish, the rewrite convincing us he’s an evil deity opposed to Mankind is Jewish. Lucifer isn’t deceptive, the rewrite convincing us he has ill intent is deceptive... etc.

As I stated in my second or third post in the thread, this whole time I was trying to reconcile stories like the serpent in the garden or Prometheus being devoid of dichotomy when Jack's story wasn't.
I fully understand all of this...

Okay, I get it. "Lucifer" doesn't have to have any theme of tricking involved.


Elohim told Adam and Eve to only eat from the Tree of Life, and that if they eat from the Tree of Knowledge, they will die. They ate the forbidden fruit anyway. Did they die?


The serpent told Eve that if she eats from the Tree of Knowledge, she will not die, but have knowledge of good and evil (duality) and become like God.


One of these entities straight up lied to Adam and Eve to keep them docile, while the other offered them a choice. Lucifer offers you a choice. It is up to you to choose wisely. In that way, Lucifer preserves free will, the most precious gift/curse given to man.

They did die. Death as in they were no longer the same.
The original topic was false light. As far as I am concerned any light that leads further away from creator is false.

All roads lead to Rome.

O ye'll tak' the high road and I'll tak' the low road,
And I'll be in Scotland afore ye.

Even the unredeemed spirits will someday reconcile with God.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Grass is Green on June 09, 2021, 10:59:39 AM
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Yet, Sophia implanted that very light in Seth, deceiving the Demiurge. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to perceive the delineation you're making when you're being laconic. Is it because we were talking about Jack being a "Jewish" archetype (connection to the Demiurge)? Still, do both aspects of "Light carrier"s not have an embedded facet of deception?


FWIW I think the issue of Satan was brought up to show how polarized expectations can ensnare our learning of these concepts. If they have us filling the wrong blanks we’ll never notice the right answers. Religions don’t arm us with the correct slots for the cosmic shapes, after (((rewrites))) they arm us with slots that will actively refuse those shapes.

Take the Demiurge for example, the Greeks assigned that title to a planet, simple as that, but the Gnostic hijack formed such a polarized story around that title, made it so evil, good luck fitting any shape through the Demiurge slot anymore. They created a ‘blank’ that doesn’t exist, there’s no ‘answer’ because any real demiurge is nothing like the Gnostic story describes.

That’s one immediate example of the above. The Demiurge isn’t Jewish, the rewrite convincing us he’s an evil deity opposed to Mankind is Jewish. Lucifer isn’t deceptive, the rewrite convincing us he has ill intent is deceptive... etc.

As I stated in my second or third post in the thread, this whole time I was trying to reconcile stories like the serpent in the garden or Prometheus being devoid of dichotomy when Jack's story wasn't.
I fully understand all of this...

Okay, I get it. "Lucifer" doesn't have to have any theme of tricking involved.


Elohim told Adam and Eve to only eat from the Tree of Life, and that if they eat from the Tree of Knowledge, they will die. They ate the forbidden fruit anyway. Did they die?


The serpent told Eve that if she eats from the Tree of Knowledge, she will not die, but have knowledge of good and evil (duality) and become like God.


One of these entities straight up lied to Adam and Eve to keep them docile, while the other offered them a choice. Lucifer offers you a choice. It is up to you to choose wisely. In that way, Lucifer preserves free will, the most precious gift/curse given to man.

They did die. Death as in they were no longer the same.
The original topic was false light. As far as I am concerned any light that leads further away from creator is false.

No, they didn’t die. So they had to be punished instead.
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: The Watchers 2.0 on June 09, 2021, 11:44:12 AM
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Yet, Sophia implanted that very light in Seth, deceiving the Demiurge. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to perceive the delineation you're making when you're being laconic. Is it because we were talking about Jack being a "Jewish" archetype (connection to the Demiurge)? Still, do both aspects of "Light carrier"s not have an embedded facet of deception?


FWIW I think the issue of Satan was brought up to show how polarized expectations can ensnare our learning of these concepts. If they have us filling the wrong blanks we’ll never notice the right answers. Religions don’t arm us with the correct slots for the cosmic shapes, after (((rewrites))) they arm us with slots that will actively refuse those shapes.

Take the Demiurge for example, the Greeks assigned that title to a planet, simple as that, but the Gnostic hijack formed such a polarized story around that title, made it so evil, good luck fitting any shape through the Demiurge slot anymore. They created a ‘blank’ that doesn’t exist, there’s no ‘answer’ because any real demiurge is nothing like the Gnostic story describes.

That’s one immediate example of the above. The Demiurge isn’t Jewish, the rewrite convincing us he’s an evil deity opposed to Mankind is Jewish. Lucifer isn’t deceptive, the rewrite convincing us he has ill intent is deceptive... etc.

As I stated in my second or third post in the thread, this whole time I was trying to reconcile stories like the serpent in the garden or Prometheus being devoid of dichotomy when Jack's story wasn't.
I fully understand all of this...

Okay, I get it. "Lucifer" doesn't have to have any theme of tricking involved.


Elohim told Adam and Eve to only eat from the Tree of Life, and that if they eat from the Tree of Knowledge, they will die. They ate the forbidden fruit anyway. Did they die?


The serpent told Eve that if she eats from the Tree of Knowledge, she will not die, but have knowledge of good and evil (duality) and become like God.


One of these entities straight up lied to Adam and Eve to keep them docile, while the other offered them a choice. Lucifer offers you a choice. It is up to you to choose wisely. In that way, Lucifer preserves free will, the most precious gift/curse given to man.

They did die. Death as in they were no longer the same.
The original topic was false light. As far as I am concerned any light that leads further away from creator is false.

No, they didn’t die. So they had to be punished instead.

Their punishment was a 'death' of their old way of life and a transition into something new for them. Unfortunately for them their life of being pampered by their 'god' had come to an end and they had to create a new life from scratch, every part of it by themselves. Unfortunately for them there was a 'tree' of knowledge and they gained just enough knowledge to become slightly self aware but apparently not enough to create and take care of themselves in a new life away from their god.

Do we ever question if the knowledge from the 'fruit' of the 'tree of knowledge' was actually legitimate or was it fabricated by their god or another power? How could they gain just enough to get kicked out but not enough to help themselves if such a thing were to happen?
Title: Re: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: Grass is Green on June 09, 2021, 11:50:09 AM
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Yet, Sophia implanted that very light in Seth, deceiving the Demiurge. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to perceive the delineation you're making when you're being laconic. Is it because we were talking about Jack being a "Jewish" archetype (connection to the Demiurge)? Still, do both aspects of "Light carrier"s not have an embedded facet of deception?


FWIW I think the issue of Satan was brought up to show how polarized expectations can ensnare our learning of these concepts. If they have us filling the wrong blanks we’ll never notice the right answers. Religions don’t arm us with the correct slots for the cosmic shapes, after (((rewrites))) they arm us with slots that will actively refuse those shapes.

Take the Demiurge for example, the Greeks assigned that title to a planet, simple as that, but the Gnostic hijack formed such a polarized story around that title, made it so evil, good luck fitting any shape through the Demiurge slot anymore. They created a ‘blank’ that doesn’t exist, there’s no ‘answer’ because any real demiurge is nothing like the Gnostic story describes.

That’s one immediate example of the above. The Demiurge isn’t Jewish, the rewrite convincing us he’s an evil deity opposed to Mankind is Jewish. Lucifer isn’t deceptive, the rewrite convincing us he has ill intent is deceptive... etc.

As I stated in my second or third post in the thread, this whole time I was trying to reconcile stories like the serpent in the garden or Prometheus being devoid of dichotomy when Jack's story wasn't.
I fully understand all of this...

Okay, I get it. "Lucifer" doesn't have to have any theme of tricking involved.


Elohim told Adam and Eve to only eat from the Tree of Life, and that if they eat from the Tree of Knowledge, they will die. They ate the forbidden fruit anyway. Did they die?


The serpent told Eve that if she eats from the Tree of Knowledge, she will not die, but have knowledge of good and evil (duality) and become like God.


One of these entities straight up lied to Adam and Eve to keep them docile, while the other offered them a choice. Lucifer offers you a choice. It is up to you to choose wisely. In that way, Lucifer preserves free will, the most precious gift/curse given to man.

They did die. Death as in they were no longer the same.
The original topic was false light. As far as I am concerned any light that leads further away from creator is false.

No, they didn’t die. So they had to be punished instead.

Their punishment was a 'death' of their old way of life and a transition into something new for them. Unfortunately for them their life of being pampered by their 'god' had come to an end and they had to create a new life from scratch, every part of it by themselves. Unfortunately for them there was a tree of knowledge and they gained just enough knowledge to become slightly self aware but apparently not enough to create and take care of themselves in a new life away from their god.

Do we ever question if the knowledge from the fruit of the tree of knowledge was actually legitimate or was it fabricated by their god or another power? How could they gain just enough to get kicked out but not enough to help themselves if such a thing were to happen?

They existed under the illusion of separation but before the illusion of duality. Did the serpent fail to tell them more, or did they fail to ask?
Title: The occult was being taught to us as children
Post by: AllKeyMe on June 09, 2021, 12:31:47 PM
So they were tempted by themselves to eat a part of themselves to later only be kicked out of themselves by themselves.
If garden of Eden was the one thing then eating the apple did not give them knowledge but taken it away.
And without this knowledge of the one thing they placed themselves in a state which was not the garden of Eden.