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Messages - ElderWorx

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Let's Get Down & Dirty / Re: Greetings Music Lovers
« on: June 25, 2021, 02:32:25 PM »
Anybody ever find any Genuine Theurgical Music?

Judging by past replies, it appears most are incapable of understanding music's force as an art as its base.

Everyone's got an opinion

... if only some would be disabused of their own.

- Elderworx

Let's Get Down & Dirty / Re: Greetings Music Lovers
« on: September 03, 2020, 01:33:12 PM »
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It's all music but that doesn't speak to the quality of it nor what said music is tapping into. It's all tapping into something though. Modern music resembles the music that Melkor associated with instead of Creator's and even that was just a reversal of Creator's music.

There's plenty in all music and sounds in general that most people don't pick up on at all for the simple reasoning of a lack of awareness and ability to perceive more of whats being presented to them. The persons lack of ability to pick up on what they are hearing doesn't mean what they are hearing isn't invoking or tapping into anything just that the listener is deaf.

'Classical music' was when the majority of people understood that music is magic. 'Modern music' is what you get when destructive forces that would see mankind fall understands music is magic but the masses refuse to acknowledge this, much to their detriment but they can't say they were never told.

This is the type of comment and thinking that is wrong without knowing that it is wrong. Saying that "it's all music" is the same as saying that the air-conditioning unit outside the house--because it hums a tone pitched to Eb--is producing music. Anyone who would then sit and listen to their air-conditioning unit on a hot afternoon imagining it was playing music for them would be thought rather peculiar to one who knows that music must possess specific elements as a whole that thereby elevates the "conscious arrangement of sounds" into an intelligible art form.

The argument can be made that there is "music in nature." While birds singing, wind blowing, waves roaring, animals crying; all are "musical"; thinking in these terms improperly blends definitions which can have enormously divergent effects in the end. Similarly, many "car guys" would say that a particular engine "sings" at a certain rev. or that the exhaust "note" sounds beautiful. These are similes only; however, there are examples which clearly demonstrate the need to discern what is-and is not--music...

This is an older generation Formula-1 V-10 Renault engine that's been computer programmed to throttle up and down to precise RPMs, producing  corresponding pitches and durations which "play" Queen's We Are The Champions.

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A neat trick that shows an impressive feat of mechanical engineering, but is it music?

The answer is no, because music is a human art. To program beats into a computer with the addition of sufficient digital wizardry which can only mimic organic, natural sine waves; all controlled with the push of a button; with no skill, talent, or years of work required; then what we in the modern world have is a COUNTERFEIT version of the Real Thing.

And this is the main, if not the real, problem: people who assume they possess real knowledge when they have been fed a steady and unending diet of counterfeit sustenance their entire life.

This is an example of Real Music:

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Let's Get Down & Dirty / Greetings Music Lovers
« on: September 03, 2020, 12:41:39 PM »
Greetings one and all again. After thinking over some of the comments posted to this thread--and reflecting over some of my own--I include the below as an example of "music": trash disguised as "artistry"; body-mind-soul destroying poison; anti-spirit, anti-human, anti-God; debased, destructive, defiled and defiling.

The poster who maintained that "all music calls forth a divinity" has no genuine understanding of Theurgy, nor music, and is incapable of rendering even a close approximation of the reality of Divine Work. Additionally, people who do not understand the essence of what music is supposed to be, can have a hard time discerning what they are hearing/seeing even when it is gratuitously presented in all it's undeniable demonic glory.

This is what "the kids" are listening to these days. Stay hip, if you want to stay relevant.

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- Eli

Let's Get Down & Dirty / Greetings Music Lovers
« on: August 19, 2020, 02:04:29 PM »
After recently looking at the thread A thread for the cowardly whiny cunts.. come and get it I'm having second thoughts and reservations about providing any genuine examples of theurgical music here.
Some of the responses were rather "eyebrow raising" (to say the least) regarding people's character, and the overall timbre of the forum participants here are puzzling.

This was curious:

NRG has ego issues, not just with me; we have all seen it and if he admitted it and thought sometimes before he made posts he might see it too... what stands out and always has is that "thread full of baffoons" guy who came here and was well spoken and well informed and it turned into "who has the better Order membership" ego dual and Nick broke his "never ban" rule and banned him. Yet from most POV's this guy did nothing wrong, just asked some questions.

and it seems to have sparked some tenuous debate. Certainly, for myself, it made me question what I should "share" on this website.

Here is an example of claims which negate the essence of theurgical music, and which indicates that people (including those on sites like this one) do not understand what theurgy consists of:

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Every song in existence invokes a God, whether the composer knows it or not, and 95% do.


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No music is inherently theurgical, itís how a magician uses that music that makes it theurgical. Your classical composers knew this, and they knew any combination of sound in any genre of music will provide the necessary framework. I can tap my fingers on a tabletop and achieve a theurgical mindset.

These are contradictory messages. If the latter were the case, than every seven year old practicing Baa Baa Black Sheep the world over would be "invoking a God" in their parent's living rooms and drumming on one's thighs would make everyone who can keep a steady beat a Theurgical Magician of the Most Elevated Eminence--no matter what their state of being.

A person has to work unceasingly throughout their life to achieve, one, high musical aptitude and comprehension, and two, to be able to understand the more esoteric aspects of humanity and life. Most "musicians" cap out at a particular level of development if they don't push themselves to study new forms and styles, just like the average person does throughout his or her life in the course of normal living. Adding to music "magical" elements requires an even higher dedication and self-knowledge that 98% of the population will not attain.

No, not every song/composition/performer/sound/recording is theurgical! In fact, what most people would first have to realize is that most "music" is anti-music, mind-controlling, soul-destroying, pseudo art and counterfeit.

- Eli

Let's Get Down & Dirty / Greetings Music Lovers
« on: August 05, 2020, 05:06:40 PM »
Most people who have included musical examples are heading in the opposite direction away from what theurgic music consists of in essence; in fact, most are gravitating towards anti-music.

I include the following example as a means for "redirecting" the attention to 1) what actual, genuine musical art is in essence and 2) what first, must necessarily be present before the creation of theurgical music is possible.

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There are more theurgical pieces available, and if anyone expresses an interest in reviewing them, they can be included in subsequent responses.


Let's Get Down & Dirty / Greetings Music Lovers
« on: July 01, 2020, 01:45:20 PM »
I know a bit about tritones; I wrote the below in response to someone who was looking for clarification on "The Devil's Note."

Diabolus in Musica (Devil in Music)

Generally called a diminished 5th or a tritone. Enharmonic equivalent of an augmented 4th.

The intervallic relationship of a diminished 5th is six semi-tones, either up or down from the starting pitch.

On a keyboard:

C - C# D - D# E - F - F# G - G# A - A# - B - C
0 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 12

Count up six steps starting from any note and you will arrive at that note's tritone. (C to F#/Gb is a tritone.)

Because western tonal music consists of 12 equal-tempered tones, the 6th tone splits the chromatic scale in half, thereby inverting the interval no matter what pitch is played.

A 5th (intervallic distance of seven semi-tones) is considered perfect. (C to G is a perfect 5th.)

Perfect has to do with the ratio of the two tones under consideration: 5:4, 3:2, 2:1.

Other intervals are considered imperfect (2nds, 3rds, 6ths, 7ths). These rations might be 18:32, 12:15, 30:36, etc.

The imperfect are more mathematically and harmonically complex whereas perfect intervals are more simple.

Another way to look at the diminished (to make smaller or reduced) 5th is to consider it as slightly "less than perfect," as the perfect 5th is the most stable harmonic interval, as well as providing the tonic-dominate relationship for western music, pre-atonalism.

Similar to spiritual understandings: we strive for perfection but fall short of the Ideal.

Another way again to look at it again is in terms of sound-resolution. It simultaneously offers the most discordant of sounds, while providing the most tense need of motion: it entices the ear while immediately necessitating moving onward and away from it.

Skilled composers know how to manipulate the tritone to cause radical shifts in the listener's consciousness.

The ancient church forbid the use of the tritone (hence the name diabolus in musica) precisely because of the effect it had on the consciousness of the day.

We in the modern world are so used to it that it does not cause the same effects it once did to our ancestors.

Regarding Paganini and the tritone, can you be more specific how an intervallic relationship relates to Musical Theurgy?

- Eli

Let's Get Down & Dirty / Re: Greetings Music Lovers
« on: June 26, 2020, 10:42:24 PM »
Thanks for all the replies.

I believe I should rephrase the question: what is Theurgical Music?

It seems to me that not all music is theurgical, for if it were there would be no such thing as the term theurgy--as it's applied musically (or in any other art form for that matter). If all music is "divinely oriented" then that places some of the most soul-destroying and mind-numbing "music" (like gangster rap, heavy metal, hip-hop, modern pop) on the same level as the truly great master composers in history. Does anyone believe that there are no gradations of forms of music?

Another way of saying this is, I've never heard any one refer to rap as theurgical.

Now there seems to be a wealth of literature from antiquity referencing Theurgy and Theosophia: Plato, Iamblichus, Plotinus, Plutarch, Boethius, Pythagoras, among others. All of these savants taught and proclaimed that Theurgy--as it was applied to music--was a very special, highly esoteric combination of essential elements which was capable of establishing rapport and a conjoining with Deity.

I have been unable to ascertain what therugical music sounds like, what it feels like, what it is. What type of instruments were/are used; are there any modern artists/composers who write exclusively in the theurgic mode; what kind of effect does it have on the hearer; how can one identify it when they hear it,  etc... ?

It does not appear that someone like Jennifer Lopez (sp?), Peter Gabriel (as much as I enjoy him), or someone who loops their own voice comes anywhere close to fulfilling the definition of Theurgy as outlined by the above mentioned spiritual geniuses.

Thanks for the thoughtful replies! I'm enjoying being able to think about all of the above.

- Eli

Let's Get Down & Dirty / Greetings Music Lovers
« on: June 26, 2020, 03:17:02 PM »
Hi Zephyr,

Thank you for responding. You seem to be excited to talking about this subject; it is a heady one indeed!

Can you provide some examples of music you feel are "theurgic" and why you think they are? You mention composer(s). Are you referring to composers in the classical sense, or are you including modern (even world) music in this category?

A song that I can remember? Not all of it, but I once I got started I could probably cull from some deep-seated place in my memory Ice, Ice Baby by Vanilla Ice. Are you saying a song (rap?) is theurgic simply because there's lyrics and rhythm combined? Are you saying it has to be a deeply meaningful experience?

What is Theurgy?


Let's Get Down & Dirty / Greetings Music Lovers
« on: June 26, 2020, 12:19:18 PM »
Hello site members and admins.,

I'm new to this site though not new to conspiracy forums. I'm interested in all things music: mankind's relationship with the earth's many available cultural, social, and spiritual traditions; how it impacts our consciousness and how it can be developed to aide in our evolution; the history, the personalities, instruments, transmission and education; past, present, and future musical expressions.

I discovered this site looking for key words in my musical searches and registered as to be able to check links, as well as post when the mood strikes me.

Currently I am looking for information on Theurgical musical practices. Does anyone have any personal experiences related to theurgic music or can anyone recommend sources pertaining to it?

This should be an adequate introduction to start with on my end. I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of insight is forthcoming.


- Eli

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